358 norma magnum vs 35 whelen358 norma magnum vs 35 whelen

The .358 Norma can be loaded down to duplicate the performance of either of the two smaller cartridges. Give a Gift as a way to boost the power of the Model 94 lever-action rifle. I believe it never will. My favorite hunting round. The .308 Winchester is a fine elk cartridge, and the grand old .30-06, with a bit more velocity and energy, is better. 9.3x62 boots 320gr Woodleigh protected points and weldcore round noses out at 2400 fps with RL-17. I would never argue that a .243 Winchester with a good bullet placed well, or certainly a .25-06 with a tough, heavy bullet, cant do the job. Have a .350 Rem Mag, building a .358 Win currently, would prefer to do the .358 Norma if possible but not sure if this action can handle it.Anyone? Sierras 225-grain spitzer boat-tail, designed for the .35 Whelen, is a stellar performer in the .358 Norma. DoubleTap loads the 180-grain Barnes TTSX bullet at 3100 fps, and the 225-grain Swift A-Frame at 3000 fps, giving options to the hunter who wants the most versatility from their big-game rifle. Released in 1959though there were no factory chambered rifles or factory loaded ammunition available for the new cartridgeNorma offered chamber reamers and new component brass for its new brainchild. In any mass-production rifle, either the .375 or .338, or both, will be found as a standard chambering. I did secure properly head stamped Norma cases thinking we'd need them going over into the Yukon (no one ever checked). 358 norma mag is a rarer bird but as I understand fire forming 300 win mag. In fact, the recoil of the .358 Norma Magnum, at about 35 ft. lbs. Short of a wounded elephant or Cape buffalo in thick cover, there is no game I can think of for which you could not concoct a load in the .358. Any desire to hunt African dangerous game with your medium bore? From there, you can work up until you find a load that gives you the accuracy and velocity you want. Remington continues to offer factory ammo, and its 200-grain factory load has a muzzle velocity of 2675 f.p.s., while the 250-grain loads muzzle velocity is 2400 f.p.s. 11 Great .338 Caliber Rifle Cartridges - Shooting Times Wolfe Publishing Company | 2180 Gulfstream Suite A | Prescott, AZ 86301. But there is no compelling reason to consider a caliber larger than .35. Can't really imagine one cartridge doing anything the other couldn't, though the availability of bigger bullets and way more factory ammo (if wanted) are definite pluses for the Mauser. in an 8.5 pound rifle, is comparable to the much more popular but less effective (on CXP3 class game) .300 Weatherby or .300 Remington Ultra Magnums. In 1968 the 600 Magnum was replaced by the Model 660 Magnum, which featured a 20-inch barrel, but it was never a big seller, and Remington dropped the rifles. They can take their time and pick their shots. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. factory load is a 250-grain Oryx bullet listed with a muzzle velocity of 2723 f.p.s. If you match the bullet to the game, this is one of the all-time great hunting cartridges. Boltface would have to be altered for the Norma. My 35 Whelen will run 250gr partitions at 2700 fps with power pro 2000 powder. That load actually produced 2825 f.p.s. I own several rifles in this cartridge and all my .35 Whelen rifles are accurate. Your rifle is your most important hunting tool, and knowing how to properly clean and store it when hunting season comes to a close is critical in keeping it in tip-top shape. The .357 Magnum revolver cartridge has also gained considerable popularity as a combination rifle/pistol cartridge and lever action rifles for the .357 Magnum sell pretty well. Three rivals: (1) .338 Winchester Magnum, (2) .358 Norma Magnum and (3) .375 H&H. Let's also compare the .358 with the other end of the spectrum. You know the kind with the locking bolt. Ill bet its been awhile since those cartridges have been seen in a hunting camp. Heres a look at 10 of the most flexible long-range hunting cartridges. from my E.R. You get the shot you get, and within sensible limits, you must be able to take the shot offered. The nearest of any to the .358 Norma was the .35 Newton, which it closely resembles. Mag.-all with a bigger, heavier bullet that will punch a bigger hole and penetrate deeper. Either of the other two cartridges mentioned will work just fine also. Too bad Ingemar Johansson was not so well equipped. Alas, to the best of my knowledge, its not imported to the U.S. It arrived with three other cartridges designed to compete with Winchesters popular lever-action lineup. Behind the Bullet: .358 Norma Magnum - An Official Journal Of The NRA The rivalry between the .338-inch and .358-inch bore diameters has a considerable history; both topped out at 300 grains (at one point in time in history), and both have a lower end of 180 grains. Real world, the Norma bitchslaps brown bears and moose as convincingly as the 375H&H. Unlike either the .338 or .375, the .35 (.358-inch) has been a standard American caliber since 1900. Oklahoma. Where does the .358 Norma sit, in comparison to the more popular cartridges in its class? Rifle Recoil Table. Norma Projektilfabrik answered Winchesters designs with a pair of their own: the .308 Norma Magnum and its slightly older brother, the .358 Norma Magnum. of energy at the muzzle. Shorter and more common than the magnum-length receiver needed for the .375 and .300 Holland & Holland Magnum, the Winchester Model 70s and Remington Model 721s gave a new level of performance when chambered for the new magnums. [quote=encorerbHmmm, makes me wonder. Either way, the Newton is the unbelted twin of the .358 Norma. Food for thought, is it not? It can be the ballistic equivalent of the .30-06 with a 180-grain bullet or, pushed the other way, it can easily match the velocity of the .300 Weatherby Magnum with the same weight bullet. This means that the momentum of a rifle's reaction will exactly equal the momentum of the bullet and powder gasses ejected from the barrel. Opening up a boltface on a standard action is NOT a difficult job for a decent gunsmith and does not affect the strength or viability of the action one WHIT. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. If you handload your ammunition, it will make feeding a .358 Norma that much easier, just realize you wont find ammunition at a general store, or even at most gun shops, for that matter. I don't hunt Kodiac island nor elephants so utilizing the 06 case to build an elk rifle, lower 48 grizzly country rifle works for me. Its a great gun for moose and elk, bear and boar, and for bison as well. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Bertram Brass from Australia is a good source when you can get it, and Quality Cartridge makes a run of .350 Rigby every few years, but you could be waiting a considerable amount of time. While the American mainstream wont accept the .35, they are not unloved. In addition, for stopping the big predators of the world, it's hard to beat a suitable .35 caliber rifle. Shortening the 2.85-inches long .375 H&H case wasnt exactly a revolutionary ideathat little-known .275 H&H so closely resembles the design of the half-century younger 7mm Remington Magnum that its uncannybut with the Winchester marketing machine the concept was brought to the forefront. For the handloader, as the accompanying table demonstrates, the .358 Norma Magnum provides an almost unbelievable range of possibilities, from loads light enough for gallery shooting to heavy enough. Ruger made a few bolt-actions some years back, and Remington made rifles in the 700 Classic line, but they are long gone. It can work in close or at a distance or dazzle you with footwork. Bertram Brass from Australia is a good source when you can get it, and Quality Cartridge makes a run of .350 Rigby every few years, but you could be waiting a considerable amount of time. With a 200-grain bullet the .35 Whelen actually shoots a bit flatter than the .30-06 Sprg. The experimentation with the H&H cases, first by Weatherby and later by Winchester and Remington, certainly changed the way we hunted and made our purchases; magnum mania definitely took root. Got a nice .270 Win MTN Rifle donor 700. It has never failed me. So, if you have an interest in carrying an ultra-rare cartridge of impeccable pedigree, you either roll your own or have someone load it for you. I have shot a few critters, including a tough South Texas Nilgai, and have been happy with the performance. The .35 Win., .35 Newton and .350 Griffin & Howe Mag. You bet they worked! The big case certainly made its reputation with the 250-grain bullets, as their sectional density gives excellent penetration on even the heavy-boned animals, and the .358 Norma can push them to a muzzle velocity of 2750 fps. As a comparison, the .358 Winchester with a 250 grain bullet at 2300 fps delivers 25.4 foot-pounds of recoil from a 7.5 pound rifle. Today, rifles can be made very light, but that can also be overdone because light rifles are whippy and hard to control when youre out of breath and have to settle in for a quick shot. It put an exclamation point on that lung shot. Looking for previous installments of our "Behind the Bullet" series? Elk hunting can be extremely physicalnot only steep country, but also altitude and sometimes deep snow to buck. Among my own favorites for the .358 Norma are the Nosler Partitions in both 225 and 250 grains, Swift A-Frames (225, 250, 280) and various Woodleighs, including the unique 310-grain Weldcore. However, that may be changing, or at least the possibility of change may exist. exlcusive user. We owe a debt of gratitude to the engineers at the British firm of Holland & Holland; though it is lost to history who exactly designed the belted magnum cartridge, the .275 and .375 Holland & Holland Magnums were game changers. All we do know for sure is that it was either Howe or Whelen, or both, who necked the .30-06 Sprg. The original Schultz & Larsens were sold without iron sights, and they were installed on my rifle afterward. The numerous magnum .30s are also excellent, but they deliver more recoil. 35 Whelen vs 9.3x62 | Page 4 | AfricaHunting.com Norma offers factory ammunition, E.R. The hunter from afar, journeying into unfamiliar country, must also accept the pressure of a limited period of time and the knowledge that it may come down to just one chance. The .338-inch fans cite the advantage of the higher sectional density figures, while the .358-inch camp favors the better frontal diameter of the larger bore. Copyright 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Ruger briefly chambered the M77 rifle in .35 Whelen. For anyone with an experimental or fanciful turn of mind, the .358 Norma and the many .358-inch diameter bullets are a gold mine. Barnes has a Vor-TX load with a 180-grain TSX bullet and a muzzle velocity of 2900 f.p.s. Also, many of these hunters have the luxury of a long season close to home. Its safe to say that of all the .358 Norma Magnum rifles in existence, there are more custom than factory ones, and this makes it tricky to load for in another way. In the 80s, when Jack Carter was making his Trophy Bonded Bearclaw bullet by hand, I did some elk hunting with the 240-grain .375 version. As well, most bullet manufacturers produce soft, 200-grain roundnosed bullets intended for the .35 Remington, and these fit a wide range of uses. We've got you covered. .22 LR7mm-08 Remington8mm Remington Magnum.338 Federal.224 Valkyrie.338-06 A-Square9.3x62mm Mauser.257 Weatherby Magnum.45-70 Government.300 H&H Magnum.25-06 Remington.30-06 Springfield6.5 Creedmoor.300 Remington Ultra Magnum7mm Remington Magnum.470 Nitro Express.280 Remington.300 Winchester Magnum.270 Winchester.222 Remington.45 ACP.404 Jeffery.44 Remington Magnum.41 Remington Magnum.243 Winchester.338 Winchester Magnum.357 S&W Magnum6.5-284 Norma8x57 Mauser.38 Smith & Wesson Special7x57mm Mauser9 mm Luger.35 Whelen.454 Casull.375 H&H Magnum.45 Colt.22-250 Remington10mm Auto.308 Winchester. Re: 35 whelen vs 358 norma mag vs 9.3 x 62, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. I am not into the current long-range fad, especially on powerful animals like elk. It will kill farther than that, of course, but that is its optimum range. Then come the .30s, and now were talking business. X-Vision Optics long-range ImpactThermal Scope (TS300) boasts a 640 x 480 thermal sensor that can detect big game well past 3,000 yards. The cartridge would be championed by Denys Finch Hatton (of Out of Africa fame), John Pondoro Taylor and Pete Pearson, and would be used by Baron Bror von Blixen-Fineke as well. The recent introduction of a Hornady LeverEvolution factory load for the .35 Remington has usefully improved its ballistics. Id mate it with a good 180-grain bullet, top it with a one-inch-tube scope (to save weight), and go elk hunting. has been offered in just about every rifle action type ever conceived and a few handguns. Where the .338 Winchester drives its 250-grain bullet to 2650 fps, the .358 Norma beats that figure by 100 fps or so, delivering over 4,200 ft.-lbs. After ten years of not getting drawn I sold it it was too much gun for most of my hunting. Sure, you can get away with it, especially with todays extra-heavy bullets, but I think its foolish. I think Jack OConnor, the great champion of the .270, would agree. Also as I have a lot of 357 pistol bullets I was figuring on being able to use them as reduced loads/smaller game options in either big 35 cal should I go that route. Maybe I'll just get a 375 H+H instead of going the Norma route. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. 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Thinking of a medium bore with a bit of thump.9.3 x 62 holds some exotic mystique for me being its use on African large game but I am thinking realistically .366 cant be that much of an advantage over .358 can it? The M700 has been a popular action for building a rifle in .358 STA, a wildcat based on the 8mm Remington Magnum. Out of stock View Details . is a wonderful cartridge, but nobody buys them. it is complicated further by a requirement for different burning rate powders. That 225-grain bullet has a sectional density (SD) value of 0.251, a bit light for what is normally considered to be appropriate for dangerous game. This is in sharp contrast to the overwhelming success of the .357/9mm handgun cartridges, whose popularity dates right to the beginning of the self-contained cartridge era. At 400 yds., the .358 Norma impacts 3.1 inches lower than the .300 Win. 35 whelen vs 358 norma mag vs 9.3 x 62 - 24hourcampfire Many western hunters annually take elk with 6mms and .25s. They will also slap down lighter game like deer, feral hogs and black bear with authority, of course. I think it would be cheeper to get another action or a magnum bolt. The 600 Magnum suffered from a barrel that was too short at 18 inches. All Petersen's Hunting subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. The body of the .350 Magnum measures 0.517 inches at the base, smaller than the 0.589-inch base of the .416 Rigby. The rifle, cartridge, and bullet must be capable of handling that one opportunity. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. Well, it betters the velocity of the .35 Whelen by at least 200 fps, much the same as the .338 Winchester Magnum does to the .338-06. The 35 whelen and 358 winchester were the two I was torn between. No, its not exactly easy on the shoulder, but its not terrible either. It is a good choice for shooters who are very sensitive to recoil, since its free recoil energy is only about 4.5 ft. lbs. The .35's are just plain superior for CXP3 class game. Perhaps thats how it should be, the masses rarely embrace true greatness. This is because it was discontinued in the mid-1970s, and reintroduced by Remington in 2003. Most Professional Hunters agree that a bullet with a S.D. The bullet was the then-new Trophy Bonded 250-grain Bear Claw. Think of the .358 Norma Magnum as the chunky cousin of the .338 Winchester Magnum; not quite as svelte or popular, but equally effective in a fight. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. The .358 has 24 percent more energy at the muzzle than the .300 Win. With its spitzer-pointed bullets, the .358 is a good medium- to long-range cartridge with capabilities out to 250 yards on big game. But when Winchester chambered the .358 the following year in its unique lever-action, the Model 88, it became a really interesting cartridge. Maybe it's a regular BDL? There are places where .22 centerfires are legal for elk. One can almost hear the echoes of Norma Mag. Im going to rule out short-range cartridges that have the power because theres no sense in making the shot more difficult than necessary. As it stands, it is most certainly on the edge of becoming obsolete. Thats a question I just dont understand. Heres how to avoid the poseurs and choose the right one. Quite honestly, the .350 Rigby isnt a cartridge Id describe as practical, but if you are looking for something quite left of center, this may be for you. in the Big Bore Model 94. The .35 Caliber Cartridge Family(.357 Mag., .35 Remington, .356 Winchester, .358 Winchester, .35 Whelen, .350 Rem. Of the bullets used, several performed extremely well, including the Bear Claw and a Nosler 250-grain Partition. The norma would cost more if I had to open the bolt face. It, as you know, can be loadeddown to be a 35 Whelen but the reverse is not true. People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. Shaw rifles 24-inch barrel. Today the .35 caliber family, at least in North America, includes the .357 Magnum, .35 Remington, .356 Winchester, .358 Winchester, .35 Whelen, .350 Remington Magnum and .358 Norma Magnum. I have a .356 Win. Like most of the children of the Holland & Holland parents, the .358 Norma uses its shoulder for headspacing, rather than the belt, as do the .375 and .300 H&H. Gun guys recognize the potential in the .358. That year, Remington also brought out the Model 673 Guide Gun in .350 Rem Mag. Hornadys LEVERevolution pushes the performance up a notch with a 200-grain pointed bullet at 2225 f.p.s. lbs. I believe in quality optics, but quality and magnification are not synonymous. The Heavyweight .358 Norma | Handloader Magazine Here in North America big game starts with deer. How it would have done on a live animal is impossible to say. This was not the factory bullet from the 1960s, with its mild-steel jacket, but a later one. On the other hand, you must hit it well, because if poorly hit, an elk shows strength and stamina and may cover many miles of tough country. Faster 6.5sthe new 6.5 PRC, the old .264, or the super-fast .26 Nosler and 6.5-300 Weatherbywill deliver more energy and open the range envelope a bit. And for the larger antelope species, like any of the eland, wildebeest, zebra and roan, the .350 Rigby Magnum is a sound choice. I have one, and I like it a lot. Remington currently lists a Model 7 rifle with a 20-inch barrel; todays version of the 600 in .350 Rem. Its a flat shootermimicking the trajectory of a .30-06 with heavier bulletsand is fully capable as an all-around choice. It never got up. The fortunate few who own them want to keep them, and these are the core admirers who make it worth Normas while to continue offering brass and loaded ammunition. 200-grain bullet to almost 2500 f.p.s. Ive had a 350 RM in a 600 Remington since the 60s. That does not mean that any gunsmith who had his own ideas about velocity and accuracy might not include it or go completely the other way. Theres also a mindset difference. For example, take the most powerful of the factory standardized .35's, the .358 Norma Magnum. Contributor Brad Fenson takes to the grill, to cook up some delicious venison burgers. There is certainly no lack of .358-inch diameter bullets to choose from but brass is limited. During the spring conservation order, you can hunt with outfitters from Arkansas to Saskatchewan. Being able to take off the scope and work with iron sights, using cast bullets or light jacketed bullets, adds an entirely new dimension to the rifle. 358 Norma Magnum | AfricaHunting.com Thinking of a medium bore with a bit of thump.9.3 x 62 holds some exotic mystique for me being its use on African large game but I am thinking realistically .366 cant be that much of an advantage over .358 can it? As a result of all this activity, .358-inch diameter jacketed rifle bullets are available in a wide range of weights and styles, from 150-grain semipointed to 200- grain roundnose, all the way up to 310 grains for the heaviest game. Out of stock View Details . Actual weight depends on subspecies, nutrition, and age, but 600 pounds is a good starting point for grownup bulls and twice the size of an unusually large deer. The Swedish firm of A.B. The .350 Rem. Head to Head: .358 Winchester vs. .350 Remington Magnum | An Official The .358 Norma established its reputation in high-end hunting rifles like this Schultz & Larsen Model 65DL. Sometimes you get a point-blank shot; other times you need to stretch it a bit farther. Sadly, my favorite bullet diameter, the .35 caliber, doesnt even rate a blip on the American shooters radar screen. We argue cartridges and calibers endlessly, but bullet choice matters. Ive seen many elk taken cleanly with a .270 Winchester, and my own longest shot on an elk was on a big New Mexico bull at 400 yards using a .270 Winchester with a 150-grain Nosler Partitionone step and down. The classic .350 Rigby Magnum load pushes a .358-inch diameter 225-grain bullet to a muzzle velocity of 2625 fps for 3,440 ft.-lbs. offered the performance level of the .358 Win. The long accepted story was that James V. Howe developed the cartridge in 1922 and named it in honor of his friend, gunwriter Col. Townsend Whelen. and .32 Rem. from the 24" barrel of a Marlin 336XLR rifle. This load uses a 200 grain Flex-Tip spitzer bullet and delivers a MV of 2225 fps and ME of 2198 ft. lbs. .35 caliber rifle cartridges have been around practically forever without ever really becoming popular. Particularly when you consider that every one of those newer short magnum cartridges burns more powder to achieve less killing power than the .350 Rem. Does the power of the magnum offer much over the whelen in real life terms? plowed fresh ground. To return to our boxing analogy, the .358 Norma Magnum not only has the Hammer of Thor, but it also offers an excellent jab, a good hook, a wicked uppercut and a variety of feints. Not necessarily top dollar everything. The .358 Norma Magnum, like the .358 Shooting Times Alaskan, generates a considerable amount of energy, but due to the caliber restrictions for dangerous game of most of the African countries, it falls shy of the markthe .375-inch bore is minimum for many countries. Why cant we love the .35? .358 Norma Magnum - Wikipedia My 35 Whelen will run 250gr partitions at 2700 fps with power pro 2000 powder. He never questioned the adequacy of his .270 for elk, nor do I, but he was also a lifelong .30-06 fan and privately conceded its superiority for elk-sized game. But there is another Rigby cartridge, vastly overlooked even among rifle cranks, but which was at one time as popular as the .375 H&H Magnum: the .350 Rigby Magnum. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction; that is one of the physical laws of our universe. Avoid quick-opening bullets, especially match bullets; instead, choose controlled-expansion designs intended for hunting larger game. Pet Loads and Handloader are registered trademarks of Wolfe Publishing Company. Right now, I think that the Browning BLR lever-action rifle is the only production gun left on the market in .358 Win. From a 12 twist bore, accuracy sweet spots for light bullets include 2950fps with 180 grain bullets, 2925fps with 200 grain bullets, before normalizing with 225 grain bullets at 2900fps. The .35 Whelen is a fine elk cartridge. Bottles & 12-oz. This stumpy little cartridge was introduced to the hunting public in 1908 and is the only surviving member of the early class of Remington rimless cartridges. Mag. As it was released in the first century of the . and .358 Norma Mag.). Here in North America, you could take the .350 Rigby anywhere youd take the .35 Whelen or .358 Norma Magnum, and that includes north to Alaska for the great bears. of muzzle energy. I'd go with the 35 whelen. My .375 H&H seemed quite adequate. The major problem with light loads is getting enough pressure to provide a good gas seal. The parent of this cartridge is the .30-06 Springfield, which is necked-up to accept a bullet diameter of .358 in (9.1 mm).This cartridge is more powerful than its parent, especially in killing power on large game. Normas original spec sheet for the .358 Norma Magnum when it was released in 1959 indicated the cartridges ballistics. Remington loads a 200-grain PSP Core-Lokt bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s. The .35 (.358) caliber has never really gotten a serious toehold here, although the occasional item like the .35 Whelen, .350 Remington Magnum, or .358 Winchester roils the waters every now and again. 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